tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1741750437311864307.post9109458966544976384..comments2024-03-28T04:07:50.925-07:00Comments on Pud Whacker's Madonna Scrapbook: But in the Process I ForgotPud Whackerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01330028293649667913noreply@blogger.comBlogger46125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1741750437311864307.post-89435429493674475622010-02-19T19:27:19.826-08:002010-02-19T19:27:19.826-08:00I love you, Pud.I love you, Pud.Tonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00863069459025815561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1741750437311864307.post-90604298342885288592010-02-18T09:41:43.352-08:002010-02-18T09:41:43.352-08:00mun - "Pud you didn't mention which versi...mun - "Pud you didn't mention which version of american life video you hate... Definitely the first, uncensored video was really something that provokes thoughts. See it once more..."<br /><br />im not fond of the one she pulled. or the directors cut. since the conversation in here has turned into 'should haves' - i think the video should have been more in line with the lyrical matter of the song. a visual social commentary with the obsession of fame. <br /><br />i also think the first three songs of American Life dealt with a similar subject. it would have been cool had she picked the best of those three - Hollywood - and released that as the lead single and like Oh Father - in which the video basically merged the subject matter of Promise to Try, Till Death do Us Part and Oh Father - she could have done the same thing by releasing Hollywood and merging the lyrical imagery of American Life, Hollywood and I'm So Stupid.<br /><br />somehow i think had that been the case - the record would have been received differently. the song American Life is not anti american as the press made it out to be. and unfortunately people are sheep and parrot the sound bytes they hear. the majority think of American Life as Madonna's anti american record - which obviously isnt the case, at all.<br /><br />just my perspective. however, that said, im glad the album didnt have powerful overplayed videos. in fact, i feel thats why maybe i like it so much. basically, my mind created the visuals rather than them being created for me. the music stands alone, which i love. xoPud Whackerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01330028293649667913noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1741750437311864307.post-18206796043766526812010-02-18T06:36:33.053-08:002010-02-18T06:36:33.053-08:00Ramon, this is the very reason I said "you ar...Ramon, this is the very reason I said "you are free to love and listen to whatever you like." I don't expect you to like everything she does. I have personal favorties and pieces of work that are better than others. There are some things that I flat out don't like. It isn't funny at all that I dared you to find the artist like Madonna. What's funny is that you can't name one. I live in the real world you speak of. I have other interests and artists I appreciate. As of today, I have 30, 431 songs on my iTunes. Everything from hip hop to rock to international to electronic to folk to anything else I want. I have a range of music that I don't really need to defend to you. Madonna just happens to be the artist I grew up with over a 26 year period. I don't defend everything she does but I have respect for her art. And if my answers sound like Madonna interviews, its only because I agree with her on those items. By the way, the Matt Lauer interview? Your interpretation is funny. <br /><br />Again, hate the album. I don't care. Its your right! I love it. I always will!Busterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12598251393282880609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1741750437311864307.post-57034408080737278382010-02-17T22:30:58.030-08:002010-02-17T22:30:58.030-08:00to Ramòn - she doesn't think lowly of her achi...to Ramòn - she doesn't think lowly of her achievements. she's talking about how she earned things, how she treated people and how she lived her life semi-blindly. anyway, you're exhausting, and not worth my time anymore.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1741750437311864307.post-40424570271577477452010-02-17T21:40:37.821-08:002010-02-17T21:40:37.821-08:00Wow, are you serious? way to start a personal atta...Wow, are you serious? way to start a personal attack and judgement against me. She doesn't have to do what I like, she's an artist, but I'm not going to sit and pretend I like an album wich I think is total rubbish and to blindly repeat every single thing that she says in interviews, because all of what you are saying are like exact quotes of what Madonna says in interviews to justify her work. Of course her opinion is important but I also think that one should make his or her own opinions and judge the work for what it is, not to blindly worship someone and everything he or she produces as if this were a cult. No wonder Madonna despises 90% of her fans and believe me she does, she's given proof of it over and over again.<br /><br />And Buster, it's really funny that you are "daring" me to find out other artists that have evolved and grown like Madonna has.<br /><br />I love Madonna, she'll always have a special place in my heart and when I was like 16 to like 24 or something I thought she was THE THING, I kinda still do, but I have evolved and realized that there is a whole world out there, and a lot of really amazing female artists just as great or even greater than Madonna, I suggest you explore other artforms as well. <br /><br />I remember the Matt Lauer interview when he just full on questioned Madonna's rather ridiculous and pathetic statements during this period, like when he asked her about the whole I was a bufoon till I was 40 comment, who strives to be a bufoon?? I mean it's so sad that she actually thinks so lowly of her achievements, at least up to that point, but the interview showcases Madonna with this album, it's Madonna going off the deep end and not in a good way.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1741750437311864307.post-16336907682853465662010-02-17T11:04:07.118-08:002010-02-17T11:04:07.118-08:00so many interesting comments. i will try and addr...so many interesting comments. i will try and address some and add my opinions a little later. xoPud Whackerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01330028293649667913noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1741750437311864307.post-48235957303155243282010-02-17T09:55:24.536-08:002010-02-17T09:55:24.536-08:00Holy shit... I think this debate is going in a wro...Holy shit... I think this debate is going in a wrong, unhealthy direction.... Why can't we stop it friends? Anyway we all are great fans of our queen but as buster has just said before, even madonna makes mistake (that's what even us said in our previous comments not that we hate her. Understand?) I wish if madonna happens to read all these comments so that she can understand what her fans need and keep reigning at top. I know it's not gonna happen ever... And pud, Be proud to be yourself, see the response of the world to your thoughts and ideas. Hats off... Anyway i had a wonderful experience and i'm happy that i could be an active person to comment here :-)Reincarnation Of A Dead Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16222781703314304124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1741750437311864307.post-5454324766871666882010-02-17T08:06:25.772-08:002010-02-17T08:06:25.772-08:00Ramon, with every single word you type, you want h...Ramon, with every single word you type, you want her immersed in your reality. Its clear you like her to be very literal. If she makes a video about war, every single line of the song has to be about war and the song should be titled "War!" I can see you want it simple and your way. Too bad. She is an artist and although I am sure she cares about her fans, she doesn't make music for the sole purpose of making sure that YOU like it. If you could put your aversion for the video aside and really listen to the music. I am not saying Madonna doesn't make mistakes, I am saying with or without your approval, she will make any kind of record she wants. I dare you to go and find another artist who has been consistent with change and growth for the last 26 years. Go ahead...go out and find them. <br /><br />American Life was released in April 2003 and RIT kicked off over a year later in May 2004. I don't ever remember her claiming that tour to be in support of the American Life album just like Girlie SHow was not in support soley of Erotica. Confessions and Hard Candy had tours to promote those albums. Again, wanting her to follow a formula that works soley for you will not happen. <br /><br />evrybdygegeget pointed out some great messages and references in the music on this album so its there. You don't have to see it or even want to see it. You already made up your mind the album is crap - great. So, don't listen to it. That's the beauty of all of this - you are free to love and listen to whatever you like. Enjoy!Busterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12598251393282880609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1741750437311864307.post-76326662747048156452010-02-17T04:27:12.814-08:002010-02-17T04:27:12.814-08:00the album's lyrics explore many topics - the i...the album's lyrics explore many topics - the illusion of hollywood and what it symbolises, society's unhealthy quest for fame, for material posessions, the media feeding us one image, radio playing the same songs, our need to feed our ego, the american dream, and the falsity of it all. it also explores the topic of spirituality, reassessing what is really important, redefining your life away from the influence of society... wanting to connect to something higher. i mean, do i have to spell it out? it's right there in the lyrics. so it makes sense to me that she would connect that with imagery of war (a dramatised manifestation of some of the above themes), catwalks, celebrities, fashion, beauty. it's pretty astonishing if you cannot recognised that and make the connection.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1741750437311864307.post-44229995724837965712010-02-16T22:30:30.860-08:002010-02-16T22:30:30.860-08:00I didn't say she had to be immersed in my real...I didn't say she had to be immersed in my reality, just on reality. I was also criticizing the album as a whole. Intervention and XStatic Process are good, maybe the only real good songs on the album but they are still not that compelling in my opinion. <br /><br />Oh and Nothing Fails, that one is really good. <br /><br />I think the whole single choices simply show how confused Madonna was at the time, so out of touch with reality and with what people wanted to hear or look for at that point. <br /><br />I mean the whole album and everything it spawned seemed to be this whole antiBush/materialism accusation and there are like no songs on the album about those things, even on the re invention tour, the whole war theme seems utterly out of place, I mean it wasn't vietnam, it's just so weird. <br /><br />And I think that the fact that she didn't open or closed the show with a song from American Life shows how unpopular and lacking it is.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1741750437311864307.post-34837603913457373862010-02-16T22:24:27.445-08:002010-02-16T22:24:27.445-08:00Buster, when COADF became number 1 she said that s...Buster, when COADF became number 1 she said that she still very much cared about the charts, so your point is?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1741750437311864307.post-9753022240917281952010-02-16T21:21:11.465-08:002010-02-16T21:21:11.465-08:00to Ramòn - why does madonna's world have to be...to Ramòn - why does madonna's world have to be completely steeped in your reality? her world is her world. her songs are from her personal experiences and tribulations - privelaged or otherwise. it's not definitive or absolute. it is just her chapter.<br /><br />the album has a very tender side too. do you have such disdain for those songs as well? are you looking at the album wholey and objectively, or on account of public perception and the lead video/single?<br /><br />personally, though it's not necessarily my favourite madonna album, and though there are things I would have done differently in terms of promotion, I appreciate AL for its sense of enlightenment, it's sparseness in sound/production, it's combination of acoustics and electronics, and for it's delicate and exposed moments (god bless kaballah, i say, for informing songs like intervention, x-static process, die another day - possibly her last great, subversive single - etc). the blood, sweat and tears in this album is palpable.<br /><br />of course fans don't have to like it - that goes without saying. it's just a shame people are not able to at least appreciate a part of something, from their distance.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1741750437311864307.post-79446074708755978502010-02-16T21:17:51.695-08:002010-02-16T21:17:51.695-08:00Tony, no apologies to me. I don't care if peop...Tony, no apologies to me. I don't care if people liked Music or not. I loved it...its all I need to know. <br /><br />Ramon, <br />It has nothing to do with being rich and famous. It has everything to do with having the attention of the public for a long time. NO, she is not the only person that knows things. She is one person who has an opinion and perspective about those things. She shares it with her fans and it reaches far more people than most other attempts. <br /><br />I love the Madonna of the 80's and 90's. I truly did. In an interview she did in 2004, she talked about those periods of shocking people for the sake of shocking them. She said she wasn't offering an alternative. She took her clothes off and then what? It was entertaining and I loved it. Now, she is smarter and likes to share it. She is at a place where it doesn't matter if her album is a commercial success or not. If she has another #1 single or not. Sure its great but because she has earned her dues, it doesn't matter. She gets to do the kind of music she wants and how she wants to do it. She can't be everything you want her to be. You take the good with the bad or you walk away. Sounds like you have been out of love with her for almost 12 years now if Ray of Light was your last love. If you are finding her less inspiring, not entertaining, and delusional, then I suggest you find another route to satisfy your desire for inspiration and entertainment.Busterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12598251393282880609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1741750437311864307.post-46771719115124980162010-02-16T14:55:34.163-08:002010-02-16T14:55:34.163-08:00But what knowledge and what reference are you talk...But what knowledge and what reference are you talking about?? yes she is rich and famous but is she the only person to know those two things? no. But she thinks she is. There was nothing new about the message in American Life, and what's worse, it was presented in a way that no one could relate to.<br /><br />Madonna has lost a connection with the real world. And no, going to Malawi does not mean you are connected to reality. Ever since she got into Kabbalah she has been like a robot, or a scratched record. <br /><br />Of course I don't know her, but I have read her interviews and there is a very black and white difference between before kabbalah and after it, before she was so immersed in the world, in politics, in art, in books, everything, reading her interviews would always lead me on a new path of discovery, both spiritual and creative, like when I found out who Remedios Varo was because of her, and that was the magic of Madonna, she was a true preacher for enlightenment.<br /><br />Now it's all kabbalh, kabbalah, malawi, kabbalah, malawi, kabbalah, kabbalah, kabbalah, it's trite, and it's dark, it's not enlighting and it's depressing. She doesn't read a book, she doesn't get involved in politics, she is just completely out of tune with reality and with the world.<br /><br />And on another note, I saw I am because we are and it's dillusional. But that's like a whole new subject and we will never finish if I get into it, the thing is that Madonna's worked has suffered because of her change.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1741750437311864307.post-91936277072593611322010-02-16T14:15:03.095-08:002010-02-16T14:15:03.095-08:00Sorry, Buster. I don't like, "Music"...Sorry, Buster. I don't like, "Music". COADF was FAR better and Hung Up was everywhere.<br /><br />I loved the Mad TV parody of the, "Music" video far more then the real video itself. 'Just keep hitting the same note over and over and over.. (casio keyboard)". So true! LOL.Tonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00863069459025815561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1741750437311864307.post-2887408285585198872010-02-16T12:56:40.633-08:002010-02-16T12:56:40.633-08:00I can see this post going to 100 or 200 comments a...I can see this post going to 100 or 200 comments at some point. We all love her and love different times of her life more than others. That's a great thing! I am not going to deny the importance of all the other albums and songs of her career. There is a reason we all have loved her for this long! The one thing I will point out is about one of the comments that Ramon made. With American Life, I think she did come from a place of knowledge and reference and maybe she came off as "preachy" to many people. If you look back at most of anything Madonna has ever done, she has always done it with knowledge and reference. When she did Erotica and the SEX book, she did as if she were the expert on it. People hated it but her fans loved it and didn't question whether or not she was being too preachy. When you read or see an interview, a video, the concept of her albums, her performances...she ALWAYS comes at us as an expert of what she is talking about. You don't have to agree but you have to admit that she does her research. I am not sure what you mean by her looking down on us for having bills to pay and living in the real world. I don't understand what American Life, Kabbalah, and Madonna have to do with that. <br /><br />Again, many thanks to Pud for posting something he was thinking about and starting a conversation with people who agree and disagree and having the freedom discuss it!Busterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12598251393282880609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1741750437311864307.post-16039115672377700682010-02-16T10:18:03.563-08:002010-02-16T10:18:03.563-08:00Pud you didn't mention which version of americ...Pud you didn't mention which version of american life video you hate... Definitely the first, uncensored video was really something that provokes thoughts. See it once more... American people laughing at the moaning and dying eastern people in the screen and bush lighting his cigar with a grenade-like lighter(which means he would blast a bomb just to fire a cigar from it)... I got goose flesh with sympathy seeing that video.Reincarnation Of A Dead Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16222781703314304124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1741750437311864307.post-20209507828036929352010-02-16T00:48:46.656-08:002010-02-16T00:48:46.656-08:00Pud, that is one more reason I hate the whole peri...Pud, that is one more reason I hate the whole period, the song had nothing to do with war, and the video, while it's good in my opinion, is totally forced and contrived for the song.<br /><br />I made my own video in my head, it has Madonna in a 50's home, all very technicolor and she is waxy and plastic like a Stepford Wife, doing chores, and in the chorus she is washing the dishes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1741750437311864307.post-21028767770959582222010-02-15T21:42:30.950-08:002010-02-15T21:42:30.950-08:00buster - i love your evita story!! i want to see ...buster - i love your evita story!! i want to see those pics!!!<br /><br />-----<br /><br />Ramòn - funny, as much as i love the album american life - i loathe the video for the single. i think it should have been more literal to the social commentary of the song. the war theme as just dumb to me - like a culture club war song video. i think people pedestal it for the fact that it was banned. in actuality, its crap.Pud Whackerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01330028293649667913noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1741750437311864307.post-12756119311079147382010-02-15T20:57:55.125-08:002010-02-15T20:57:55.125-08:00Tony, I disagree. Music was her last relevant albu...Tony, I disagree. Music was her last relevant album, both artistically and commercially. When it came out, everyone and their mother where rocking the disco cowgirl look, and artists were trying to copy her sound and influences.<br /><br />Not even COADF managed to have such impact. Hard Candy neither. American Life doesn't even count.<br /><br />I also find it's her most honest album. There is no pretense to Music, it's like going to the core, songs like I deserve it make me feel like I'm looking at Madonna's soul. It's a minimalist album, and I adore it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1741750437311864307.post-15120866503596128722010-02-15T20:54:56.292-08:002010-02-15T20:54:56.292-08:00Ok, first of all there is nothing that I "mis...Ok, first of all there is nothing that I "missed" or "didn't get" from American Life, because it's not that complicated. Lyrically speaking it's her least metaphotical album. The lyrics are very matter of factly, what it says is what it is, it's not something like Ray of Light where you had really ambiguous songs like Candy Perfume Girl or Skin where you gave the song your own meaning, that's not the case with AL, the songs are about different yet specific topics and there is not much room for free interpretation so it's not like I didn't get it like you are implying.<br /><br />Having said that, the message of American Life, that material possesions don't give you happiness or purpose or value, amongst other messages, is not new. On top of that, Madonna decided to convey it in a very preachy, entitled way, almost as if she thought her words were groundbreaking, and she just comes across as a dellusional person. <br /><br />I know that it might've been hard for Madonna to realize at the time, but most people have a lot of real problems, a lot of real bills to pay, a lot of real economic threats to their livelihoods, basically what I'm trying to say is that it's very easy to be all Kabbalah, and introspective and go all zen in life when you have a fortune of 300 million dollars, when she was starving in new york and early in her career, she sang a different tune regarding money.<br /><br />And that is the precise reason why the album trully bombed, it was Madonna at her hypocritical worse. It was Madonna posing herself as this new prophet for enlightenment, totally oblivious to the fact that we have heard that message over and over again, and oblivious to the fact that she was just being a false prophet, pretty much like the beasts she references in the beast within.<br /><br />Also, American Life was like the antithesis of everything Madonna ever stood for, and that is not good. Madonna's music has been at times, light and profound but always hopeful and always deep. Madonna's music has the power to take you out of your world, take you in a journey where you can come back and see your situation with new eyes and do something to improve it and the world around it. That's what Express Yourself and Vogue and Ray of Light and all her best songs where all about.<br /><br />American Life is just the spoiled california rich girl playing dress up and trying to be counterculture and revolutionary and looking down on you for not doing the same because you have bills to pay and you live in the real world. It's a horrible album.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1741750437311864307.post-36705270998721853252010-02-15T19:56:15.395-08:002010-02-15T19:56:15.395-08:00Oh buster... I envy how lucky you guy are! You'...Oh buster... I envy how lucky you guy are! You've seen madonna live 15times. It's one of my ambition to watch her live.<br />When i criticize this american life album, everybody thinks that i'm not a madonna fan. Well that doesn't matter. What i do is criticizing positively. Because i have some standard expectations for her. For this album, i've felt that she is not that successful to reach that usual level. But surely not that bad like I'm breathless(yet breathless has some good songs). It's been only since 98 i'm her fan. But since then she's MY NUMBER 1.<br />Then a friend told- music is mechanical. NOT AT ALL... Listen to it carefully you'll understand. Music makes the people come together. Yeah? Yeah? Yeah? Definitely. That's why we all strangers from different corners of the world came together here.<br />Thank you buster once again for sharing your perception of die another day meaning. I think you're right...Reincarnation Of A Dead Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16222781703314304124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1741750437311864307.post-48709289626662145752010-02-15T18:19:12.601-08:002010-02-15T18:19:12.601-08:00"Music" and the, "American Life&quo..."Music" and the, "American Life" album are both duds. They both have a few good songs, but the rest sucks compared to all her brillaitn albums before those, "Madonna, "LAV", "True Blue", "Erotica" and especially, "Like a Prayer".<br /><br />"Music" was cold and emotionless. So mechanical. Not my kinda album. Same can be said for AL. I'd put, "Music" and, "AL" together as close cousins. Even though "Ray of Light" is far from my favorite M album, it does not belong next to, "Music" or, "American Life".Tonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00863069459025815561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1741750437311864307.post-32467611763074579482010-02-15T15:30:43.786-08:002010-02-15T15:30:43.786-08:00The point of the song, FOR ME, is about self-destr...The point of the song, FOR ME, is about self-destruction but not the way most people think of it. Its in a good way. <br /><br />"I'm gonna avoid the cliché<br />I'm gonna suspend my senses<br />I'm gonna delay my pleasure<br />I'm gonna close my body now"<br /><br />She is talking about disconnecting from her physical world and connecting to her spiritual world. The things she is doing in the physical world are "killing" her although not literally. So, she is trying to change. Making different choices, cutting the cord on the desire to receive for the self alone. <br /><br />"I'm gonna break the cycle<br />I'm gonna shake up the system<br />I'm gonna destroy my ego<br />I'm gonna close my body now"<br /><br />By the way, this is MY meaning of the song. If you have a different meaning, by all means, post it however don't tell me I am wrong about mine because I don't expect you to subsrcibe to my view. I find it quite deep and incredibley poetic and I'm sorry you missed out on that. I am curious what you find to be poetic if not this album. Maybe it isn't a good pop album or even a good "art" album (what's that?) but it was an AMAZING album period! Videos is another post, another subject. <br /><br />Ramon, I didn't simply say "you don't get it" because I didn't know what to say to someone who disagreed with me. I know what I like and will defend it whether it fits in your box or not. There are many songs I don't understand from other artists but that doesn't mean that artist didn't write the most amazing piece of work for someone else to understand. Like I said, it comes down to a preference and yours and mine are not the same...and I am very thankful for that. <br /><br />But since you "got the whole album," I would love to hear what you got from it. <br /><br />Well, it sounds like you have checked out and haven't found a reason to appreciate Madonna since "What It Feels Like For A Girl" video and I am not interested it making you see otherwise...its too exausting and I simply don't care. It doesn't change how important this album was for me. If anything, it reminds me why I love it!Busterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12598251393282880609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1741750437311864307.post-5720091549871250592010-02-15T13:49:04.901-08:002010-02-15T13:49:04.901-08:00So Buster, what is the point of Die Another Day? I...So Buster, what is the point of Die Another Day? I resent that whole "oh you didn't get it that is why you don't like it" logic, it's usually for the people who don't even know why they like something, they use that as a defense against people who don't like whatever it is that they like. <br /><br />Anyway, I got the point of the album, and it's a bad album. Lyrically it's not her best, it's not poetic, it's not deep, the same with the production, it's just too much. It's not a good pop album, and it's also not a good "art" album. <br /><br />And American Life was trully the beginning of Madonna's "uninspired" period. I mean seriously, have we even got a decent video since what it feels like for a girl?? besides from american life, we haven't. <br /><br />It almost seems like Madonna is not that interested in the muysic or the visuals, only the live shows.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com