mun - i hate to rain on your parade but theyve been saying madonna has been masculine and too muscular since 1987. everything changes in retrospect but thats just a fact. xo
Oh, and Pud, yes, they have been saying that for a long time, but it is also true that she has become more and more muscular over the years (or appears so because she is older and/or has less body fat?). You can't deny that.
well, opinions vary but one thing is for sure, this argument has been going on long before the internet - since The Who's That Girl Tour. and yes, what does happen is we all get a little bit older and everything looks different of yesteryear and we get caught up and forget the past. lets not forget madonna was really the only one with that type of body back in the day. now that workout ethic of hers is commonplace - but she is and will always be a dancer with insane discipline. look at graham, duncan or even crawford - they never quit, either.
the thing with madonna is when she is on tour, she is always at her optimum shape - almost like an athlete - for she has to sing, dance and jump through hoops for two hours each night. (thats not to mention the 2-3 full rehearsals she does before each show!!!) so really she does her show 3-4 times a day. shes amazing. whether at 25 or 50 or, lets take bets - 70!!!
our last memory of madonna is when she was on tour, where her body fat is always at a minimum. she cant lug weight around - she learned that on virgin. xo
and yes, my dearest betty lou, our long search is over. now get on snyder!!! haha! that one has been killing me for months! xo
I just wish that there was at least ONE Madonna creative endeavour that didn't have a "source" of inspiration in something else that came before her. Don't get me wrong, I love Madonna but in the last 10 years of so, I've really cultured myself intensively in fashion and art and film and in my mind Madonna has become less great, because she is not that original, but I still love her and follow her life and career.
One of my favourite photoshoots; so playful, so chic, daring and drop dead beautiful.
And yes, you're right Pud, as she tours, so her fitness regime toughens up and her bod gets tougher, but her breasts are always fabulous, as the 2006 Confessions equine V shoot demonstrates. I love her Olympian athlete style musculature, also on show in those pics.
ramon - if you have really cultured yourself intensively, as you say, in film, art and fashion then you should know that every creative endeavor has a source of information. xo
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ivor - love this shoot, as well. love this phrase you said, "her Olympian athlete style musculature".
As Pud said, artists and entertainers have been doing this since time immemorial. And, personally, Madonna's penchant for recreating older images and riffing off others has always been one of my favorite things about her. That is what art is. Being inspired by others, taking from them and making it your own. It's not like she goes around claiming, "Oh yeah, this was totally my idea. No one's ever done this before." She's always been up-front and unapologetic about appropriating other people's ideas.
And I have to say, if it wasn't for Madonna and the things she's borrowed from others before her, I would never have known who Tamara de Limpicka was (at least not at age 14), might never have taken the time to go seek out and fall in love with Greta Garbo and Marlene Dietrich, and so on and so on. She opened up doors for me as a young teen that may have otherwise stayed closed...at least until taking film history or art history classes in college. So I say, "Thank you, Madonna, for the education, and the inspiration. I'm a better-read and more well-rounded person for it."
well put, Betty. the things she has exposed us and the masses to (if they chose to pay attention) is unparalleled. She opened so many doors into so many interesting places that like you said, unless one was to take photography, cinema or other art history classes, we may never have been exposed to. and it was in many of my art classes where i made certain connections. such a beautiful gift she has always given us.
I mean a great example is 'Island Magazine' in 1983. taking Steichen's shot of Garbo for her first ever proper magazine cover - was like letting the floodgates flow forth. if one is of that investigative mindset, they look up Garbo, then the photographer and then a hundred more things open up. i say, "Thank you Madonna", as well.
and on that note who the hell would be talking and 'Gwen Wong' - Playboy Magazines Miss April Playmate of 1967 in 2010 had she not thumbed through and said - 'right on!'?
Pud, yes artists take inspiration from each other, however I have learned that there are some new things under the sun.
Madonna played a big part into discovering other artists and artworks, and I thank her for that, but I always find the artists that she leads me to more interesting than her, if anything because they were original.
For what it's worth, Madonna's music has been pioneering and original, I just wish her imagery was more authentic.
Dear puddy... I agree she had an impressive musculature since the late 80s. But that's different... Remember the videos like cherish, vogue, justify my love and the FABULOUS take a bow(oh my god, blonde ambition and girlie tours also, especially performance of virgin , fever and express yourself). She was very fit yet a perfect woman. Are these songs before 87? NAH... Then about her athletic body... I'm not blind so i can see her sing and dance on stage. She's an entertainer- not an athlet. It's ok for an athlet to have such a body and beauty is not at all a big matter for them. But beauty really matters to her. We all will become old and all good things come to an end. But feminity is essential for a woman. Madonna can develop her muscles more and more in future may be even with a SIX PACK:-) But puddy, do you want her to look like a tranny? (For our good luck, she's not that bad right now.) What i only said is that she has a less attractive body when compared to her early years.
mun - this is a difficult conversation unless one was going through it step by step - warren beatty asked her to stop working out for tracy, then she chops off her hair, does cherish and shes still voluptuous, then she goes and trains for a tour, etc.
madonna doesnt look like a tranny to me, she looks like a dancer. xo
While we are on the subject of her physique, I think she has gone to far.
Madonna has the most beautiful hands I have ever seen, in terms of bone strcuture and skin but they look revolting now thanks to having close to 0% body fat. She said in an interview that she had to train to wear the skimpy outfits on stage but guess what Madonna?? you are 50, you don't have to wear skimpy outfits to put a great show, the confessions tour is an example of that. She should cut back on the training because she is losing her beauty.
In Madonna's psyche as in her physique reside both the masculine and the feminine. For me, therein lies her attraction, therein lies her beauty and therein lies her originality.
Flexing her sinewy athletic body for Vogue 2008 on Sticky & Sweet, I was mesmirized, from the audience in Cardiff, by the fact that her long time hard edged sexuality was now perfectly reflected in her physical ferocity.
To bemoan Madonna for getting musclular is to view her in terms of a model or a pin up, she has always been so much more than pamela anderson or kate moss.
It is only fitting that she be challenging ancient stereotypes of how women should look and be giving misogynists the finger.
ivor ciccone to be honest about how Madonna has ravaged her body is not to bemoan her as a pin up or to be mysoginist, it's just expressing an opinion.
The costumes in the last tour for me where dreadful. I don't think it's necessary for her to wear such outfits at her age, and it really doesn't add anything to her show. I'm not sexist or agiest, but Madonna is dangerously entering the CHER territory with her almost naked appearances at 50 and more than obvious plastic surgery.
To ramon and puddy, why arguing like this? Ramon, we cannot say that the whole show had a wardrobe malfunction. Don't you remember anything good in that? Then wait until she releases the sticky and sweet tour. Then to puddy- my pal plz show some respect and love to those who read your blog with interest. In a sense, RAMON was right. It was not necessary for her to wear such rag pieces (during sticky and sweet tour) in songs like vogue, human nature, etc. In a picture i could even see her panties slipped off her pussy. But understand that i admire each and every costume that she wore in confession tour. The purple leotard in hung up was really good and appropriate for that song indeed. She looked really sexy in that. It's not her age but the situation and the performing song that determine an outfit. Why she had to wear unattractive underwears while simply standing and strumming a guitar? But the other songs had flamboyant cloths.
Wow we are divided aren't we. The Vogue costume was my favourite on the tour; I love her body, it's a well honed machine and I love to see her revelling in it, taking pride in it.
Off with the burka is what her Isaac performance heralded on the Confessions tour; Ramon, Mun - your comments are only a stones throw away from Islamist fundamentalism.
This is Madonna for Christ's sake, she produced a book about her pussy. Do you guys still not understand who Madonna is and what she stands for? Freedom of Choice and Freedom of Expression do not come with an Age Limit.
Ivor, do we have to drag religion into our discussion. It's not because i'm so religious. Truly speaking, i don't belong to any religion and i'm just a human being. But i don't like those talking about religion unnecessarily. Who wants to see her in burka? Noone man... Did you read my last comment completely in which i told that she looked great in her purple leotard while singing hung up? I don't know what a leotard means to you. Then about freedom of choice... Don't talk much about that. It doesn't work when you merely imitate her famous quotes. You are not madonna and you'll never be.you both used that same sentence in entirely different occasions. It's worthless if the arena is empty even if one dances stripped...
Ivor Ciccone are you SERIOUS?? put away the burka?? please.
Back in the 90's, during SEX people criticized Madonna but they did so because she was pushing boundaries. Right now she is not pushing boundaries on the sex thing, what she does is just sad and desperate and she doesn't need to do it, if you can't see it fine but don't go around dismissing other people's opinions as irrational and as extreme islamic, I take offense in that, it's a racist and dumb and totally out of place comment.
And for you all who talk about how "great" Madonna's body is, since the last two years she has been covering up her arms and her hands, and yes she is covering them up with gloves and long sleeves because she knows how ghastly they have become, also, her face looks puffy all the time and her plastic surgery is obvious. I don't see a woman who is happy with her body, I see a woman with a ravaged body and a desperate attempt to stay young.
ivor, I think the one with the problem is you. I never said women of 50 can't be sexy, there are many women over 50 who are sexy and beautiful, women like catherine denueve and sophia loren are in my opinion sexier than younger actresses.
It's not a thing of taking your clothes to be sexy, it's a thing of being sexy because you are sexy, and Madonna doesn't need to take her clothes off, in fact most people are put off by it, a lot of fans and non fans, it's no wonder they are calling her "vadge" now, people are tired of her crotch, plain and simple.
And may I say that you are really disrespectful toward islamic cultures. So they use a burka, who are you to criticize that? it's their culture and one may not agree but one must be respectful and you are not.
And we all know Madonna doesn't read reviews nor does she read magazines or watches TV, and we all know about Madonna's will and independent thinking so to think that newspapers and journalists can drive her to cover her arms is totally undermining who she is, lol at that. If she is covering her arms and hands it's not because of journalism believe me, it's because she knows how ravaged her body is but can't stop her regime.
In fact, I read an article that included the opinion of several trainers and nutritionists and they unanimously agreed that Madonna's regime is unhealthy and detrimental.
Also, I don't see why I can't state my opinion even if it's not rose colored. I admire Madonna and I celebrate her and her achievements, and one of the ways I CELEBRATE Madonna is by stating my opinion in a respectful manner about whatever it is that I want to EXPRESS MYSELF about.
I'm not insulting anyone or attacking anyone in here, if you cannot deal with someone's criteria or opinion regarding any given topic then that is sadly your problem, not mine.
I'm sorry, you're "not insulting or attacking anyone here"? You insulted and attacked Madonna using words like "revolting", "ghastly", "ravaged". Describing someone like that is bound to provoke a reaction.
Reread what I said about the burka, I stand by it. I have not offended muslims, merely stated that you seem to be like minded in terms of your desire for females to cover up.
To seriously believe the smokescreen that Madonna doesn't read or get to hear about what is written about her in the press in rather niave in my opinion. She made very public reactions to the critical backlash of Sex, American Life and her adoption. Hello? She knows exactly whats going on, even if she wants us to believe she's above it.
I will never tire of Madonna's crotch. Carry on attacking her for being a tramp, ultimately that label is something Madonna has risen above and accepted, fuck EMBRACED since I AM NOT ASHAMED.
fans either have a very short term memory or possibly werent around or conscious or coherent when it was actually unfolding, but even during the sex book, everyone was over madonna being sexual and naked or showing too much and calling her too old. again, this is an ongoing argument with madonna. had she listened to what mortals think she should do, we wouldnt have her wonderful body of work. now everyone adores the sex book.
in 10-20 years time madonna will be looked at as a trailblazer for women over 50. maybe even sooner - when confessions came out - they were saying the same thing about the leotard and now everyones in love with the confessions era and the tour.
madonna's 'fans' are an odd group. theyre never happy until she has moved on. then what they were complaining about is now what theyre crying for. like babies.
as with most things madonna, her work ages well and people just transfer the old arguments to the new things that madonna does.
Well ivor- an old, torn copy of english dictionary... Stop barking. Thank god, atleast you've got great english! You know the best trick to escape from the questions and criticisms. Like one blames his pen for his bad hand writing. You're a big bag of shit. I've been trying my best to be decent throughout this time but you're really such a schmuck that makes others lose their temper easily.
Thanks Pud, I love your site and your positive embracing of the Madonna manifesto. As per usual, I reckon your theory here is spot on. At least we can say that we are enjoying the ride, and we will be able to look back and say we supported her revolution. :) x
The only one who is naive here is you Ivor, who can't even form a critical opinion of Madonna.
Yes, Madonna fans are incredibly weird. They have no critical mind, everything that Madonna does is a masterpiece. I think that is so sad. I used to be like that back in like 2000, I still love Madonna but I have outgrown my "stan" stage, I can totally look at what Madonna does and point out what I like and what I don't like. It's virtually impossible to discuss Madonna with fellow fans because you can't disagree or dislike anything Madonna does because all you have is a sick cult for her, not admiration or fandom. It's sick.
And I do not believe that women should be covered up. I like skin.
The problem is when a woman shows skin out of desperation like Madonna is doing now, well that is uncomfortable for me because it's sad.
Never in a million years did I thought Madonna would age ungracefully, resorting to painfully OBVIOUS and unbecoming plastic surgery wich only makes her look older, I thought she was above that.
And may I say that you are all hypocrits. I remember back in the day when I used to post at the madonnatribe forums, some fans wanted Madonna to sex it up again, this around the wannabe school teacher phase she had, and most fans would jump like a vicious pack of wolves at the few of us who disliked Madonna pretenting to de an english lady in the manor, and when Madonna came back with the dominatrix theme and Erotica on the confessions tour this fans quickly changed their tune.
The point is that you don't have a mind of your own, you simply do and like what Madonna does and likes. I think it's sad to lose your individuality and your critical mind, assuming one has one in the first place.
Ramon, I don't love her blindly, nor do I like everything she does, don't make assumptions about me. I wasn't a fan of the children book phase either and a number of her songs and videos are far from what I consider to be among her best work.
I am making a big deal about this because a) I happen to think she looks awesome right now. I love this hard edged look, long blond hair, rock hard bod, it's one of my favourites of her images - I like her tough.
And b) She is challenging societal norms in terms of whats acceptable for women past a certain age.
Having said all that, I love her more spiritual work too, Prayer and ROL are career highs in my affection and I would welcome a return to this territory.
How about we just agree to disagree on the subjects of her body, ageing and in your face sexuality. I love it, you don't.
ramon, we dont care what you were like and when - maybe your mother does, or maybe your twitter and facebook 'friends' do but we dont. we see what youre like now in 2010.
you come to this blog daily and focus on things that you dont like - that arent even relevant to the post subject. maybe start an "I Think Madonna Isn't Aging The Way I Wanted and Expected Her To" blog. thats a good idea...hmmmm?
if your stance is habitual hostility - this probably isnt the place for you. theres plenty of places for you to vent your bizarre anger at madonna's aging and career choices. madonna forums are full of 'objective' people like yourself. xo
She is not pushing any boundaries right now for 50 year old women and older are not taking her fashion cues nor have they embraced her as her poster child, and young girls and women don't listen to Madonna anymore, she has lost a lot of ground with music lovers in general.
Pud, I don't have any anger towards anybody, oon the other hand I can spot your thinly veiled anger against me and everyone I guess who states their opinion.
I love this blog and seriously what is the point of creating a comments section if you are going to be bothered by people's opinions?? It's all you want to hear is praise for Madonna? This is just like any other Madonna forum or cult space, it's so sick.
Also, you say you don't care about my opinion, well what makes you think I care about yours?? I usually refrain from making comments or reading other people's opinions because I am bothered by their lack of perspective and often stupidity.
I also remember you from madonnatribe and you were always a bully. Still are.
you love the blog but think its sick? ramon, you need to take a look at that.
im not bothered by peoples opinions, at all. what does bother me is 'habitual trashing' - which is what you seem to do. its like compliment her yesteryear and trash her today.
if this was a steven klein hard candy outtake of her in the white fur and boxing gloves and everyone was saying - OMG, SHES SO HOT, id understand your position. but its not.
you seem to turn every post into how shes old and desperate and unoriginal and how youre now a master of the arts. really this is not the place for that.
so just please respect that. ive overlooked many of your comments but it seems you drive it in further the more i ignore.
This is like the second post I comment in, the first one was the American Life, TWO out of how many entries you have on this blog?? I seriously think you are overreacting.
And I had forgotten the Hard Candy outtakes, where she looks terrible in EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM.
As of late Madonna hasn't been able to look good without photoshop. I think it's sad. If you think that should be celebrated, well fine.
Ramon, you're implying you don't care about Pud's opinions, and you certainly don't have to; it's a free country. But this is Pud's blog. Naturally, it is based on and filled with HIS opinions. If that bothers you, maybe you should ask yourself why you keep coming back. Maybe you should create your own blog...?
Madonna looks great in most pap shots, though the bad ones naturally get more coverage in the tabloids. She looks amazing live on stage and super hot at awards ceremonies and premieres - there's no photoshop in those pics. And she certainly isnt the only artist to get photoshopped in publicity shots, these days everyone's at it. Get a life.
Madonna has emboldened millions of girls and women to embrace their sexualities all over the world and she still does - in the past two years she produced the most successful tour by a solo artist in history, in the vast crowds, all over the world, were girls and women who continue to be inspired by her and her choices.
betty, ally, ivor and others - its my pleasure doing this daily and i appreciate your participation here. this is a place for appreciation. madonna forums are riddled with disgruntled fans - one of the reasons i broke away from them. i cant live in a river of complaints. madonna - "unhappy people are nasty people."
So if I disagree with the status quo I am unhappy?? god you are such morons.
And I come to this blog to steal the pictures and save them on my pc, not to read Pud's bullying, dellusional and immature opinions. Or his followers for that matter.
theres plenty of places to get Madonna pics - but theres no Pud brain going along with it. so, im glad you come to rip my ideas, the way i put things together and the photos for your hard drive. thats what its for. xo
hey, buy wait, isnt that the internet version of what you say madonna does? haha!!!
just poking at you. be cool, glad youre here and have a great weekend. xo
Wow...! Perfect feminine body... I was crazy for it. But now she has a much masculine body which is least attractive when stripped.
ReplyDeletemun - i hate to rain on your parade but theyve been saying madonna has been masculine and too muscular since 1987. everything changes in retrospect but thats just a fact. xo
ReplyDeleteLOVE it! Our long search is over.
ReplyDeleteOh, and Pud, yes, they have been saying that for a long time, but it is also true that she has become more and more muscular over the years (or appears so because she is older and/or has less body fat?). You can't deny that.
ReplyDeletewell, opinions vary but one thing is for sure, this argument has been going on long before the internet - since The Who's That Girl Tour. and yes, what does happen is we all get a little bit older and everything looks different of yesteryear and we get caught up and forget the past. lets not forget madonna was really the only one with that type of body back in the day. now that workout ethic of hers is commonplace - but she is and will always be a dancer with insane discipline. look at graham, duncan or even crawford - they never quit, either.
ReplyDeletethe thing with madonna is when she is on tour, she is always at her optimum shape - almost like an athlete - for she has to sing, dance and jump through hoops for two hours each night. (thats not to mention the 2-3 full rehearsals she does before each show!!!) so really she does her show 3-4 times a day. shes amazing. whether at 25 or 50 or, lets take bets - 70!!!
our last memory of madonna is when she was on tour, where her body fat is always at a minimum. she cant lug weight around - she learned that on virgin. xo
and yes, my dearest betty lou, our long search is over. now get on snyder!!! haha! that one has been killing me for months! xo
I just wish that there was at least ONE Madonna creative endeavour that didn't have a "source" of inspiration in something else that came before her. Don't get me wrong, I love Madonna but in the last 10 years of so, I've really cultured myself intensively in fashion and art and film and in my mind Madonna has become less great, because she is not that original, but I still love her and follow her life and career.
ReplyDeleteOne of my favourite photoshoots; so playful, so chic, daring and drop dead beautiful.
ReplyDeleteAnd yes, you're right Pud, as she tours, so her fitness regime toughens up and her bod gets tougher, but her breasts are always fabulous, as the 2006 Confessions equine V shoot demonstrates. I love her Olympian athlete style musculature, also on show in those pics.
ramon - if you have really cultured yourself intensively, as you say, in film, art and fashion then you should know that every creative endeavor has a source of information. xo
ReplyDelete---
ivor - love this shoot, as well. love this phrase you said, "her Olympian athlete style musculature".
xo
As Pud said, artists and entertainers have been doing this since time immemorial. And, personally, Madonna's penchant for recreating older images and riffing off others has always been one of my favorite things about her. That is what art is. Being inspired by others, taking from them and making it your own. It's not like she goes around claiming, "Oh yeah, this was totally my idea. No one's ever done this before." She's always been up-front and unapologetic about appropriating other people's ideas.
ReplyDeleteAnd I have to say, if it wasn't for Madonna and the things she's borrowed from others before her, I would never have known who Tamara de Limpicka was (at least not at age 14), might never have taken the time to go seek out and fall in love with Greta Garbo and Marlene Dietrich, and so on and so on. She opened up doors for me as a young teen that may have otherwise stayed closed...at least until taking film history or art history classes in college. So I say, "Thank you, Madonna, for the education, and the inspiration. I'm a better-read and more well-rounded person for it."
well put, Betty. the things she has exposed us and the masses to (if they chose to pay attention) is unparalleled. She opened so many doors into so many interesting places that like you said, unless one was to take photography, cinema or other art history classes, we may never have been exposed to. and it was in many of my art classes where i made certain connections. such a beautiful gift she has always given us.
ReplyDeleteI mean a great example is 'Island Magazine' in 1983. taking Steichen's shot of Garbo for her first ever proper magazine cover - was like letting the floodgates flow forth. if one is of that investigative mindset, they look up Garbo, then the photographer and then a hundred more things open up. i say, "Thank you Madonna", as well.
and on that note who the hell would be talking and 'Gwen Wong' - Playboy Magazines Miss April Playmate of 1967 in 2010 had she not thumbed through and said - 'right on!'?
Pud, yes artists take inspiration from each other, however I have learned that there are some new things under the sun.
ReplyDeleteMadonna played a big part into discovering other artists and artworks, and I thank her for that, but I always find the artists that she leads me to more interesting than her, if anything because they were original.
For what it's worth, Madonna's music has been pioneering and original, I just wish her imagery was more authentic.
OMG!!! JUST ANOTHER RIP OFF IN A LONG HISTORY OF RIP OFFS. OOPS... I'M SORRY, I MEAN ANOTHER "TRIBUTE"
ReplyDeleteDear puddy... I agree she had an impressive musculature since the late 80s. But that's different... Remember the videos like cherish, vogue, justify my love and the FABULOUS take a bow(oh my god, blonde ambition and girlie tours also, especially performance of virgin , fever and express yourself). She was very fit yet a perfect woman. Are these songs before 87? NAH...
ReplyDeleteThen about her athletic body... I'm not blind so i can see her sing and dance on stage. She's an entertainer- not an athlet. It's ok for an athlet to have such a body and beauty is not at all a big matter for them. But beauty really matters to her. We all will become old and all good things come to an end. But feminity is essential for a woman. Madonna can develop her muscles more and more in future may be even with a SIX PACK:-) But puddy, do you want her to look like a tranny? (For our good luck, she's not that bad right now.) What i only said is that she has a less attractive body when compared to her early years.
Look at those perfect boobs and the seductive thighs... Seem like moulded butter...
ReplyDeletemun - this is a difficult conversation unless one was going through it step by step - warren beatty asked her to stop working out for tracy, then she chops off her hair, does cherish and shes still voluptuous, then she goes and trains for a tour, etc.
ReplyDeletemadonna doesnt look like a tranny to me, she looks like a dancer. xo
While we are on the subject of her physique, I think she has gone to far.
ReplyDeleteMadonna has the most beautiful hands I have ever seen, in terms of bone strcuture and skin but they look revolting now thanks to having close to 0% body fat. She said in an interview that she had to train to wear the skimpy outfits on stage but guess what Madonna?? you are 50, you don't have to wear skimpy outfits to put a great show, the confessions tour is an example of that. She should cut back on the training because she is losing her beauty.
In Madonna's psyche as in her physique reside both the masculine and the feminine. For me, therein lies her attraction, therein lies her beauty and therein lies her originality.
ReplyDeleteFlexing her sinewy athletic body for Vogue 2008 on Sticky & Sweet, I was mesmirized, from the audience in Cardiff, by the fact that her long time hard edged sexuality was now perfectly reflected in her physical ferocity.
To bemoan Madonna for getting musclular is to view her in terms of a model or a pin up, she has always been so much more than pamela anderson or kate moss.
It is only fitting that she be challenging ancient stereotypes of how women should look and be giving misogynists the finger.
That sinewy, veiny, powerful, beautiful, fuck you finger x
ReplyDeleteivor ciccone to be honest about how Madonna has ravaged her body is not to bemoan her as a pin up or to be mysoginist, it's just expressing an opinion.
ReplyDeleteThe costumes in the last tour for me where dreadful. I don't think it's necessary for her to wear such outfits at her age, and it really doesn't add anything to her show. I'm not sexist or agiest, but Madonna is dangerously entering the CHER territory with her almost naked appearances at 50 and more than obvious plastic surgery.
It's unclassy, it's desperate and it's sad.
ramon - if you having nothing nice to say, shut that hole you call a mouth. xo
ReplyDeleteTo ramon and puddy, why arguing like this? Ramon, we cannot say that the whole show had a wardrobe malfunction. Don't you remember anything good in that? Then wait until she releases the sticky and sweet tour.
ReplyDeleteThen to puddy- my pal plz show some respect and love to those who read your blog with interest. In a sense, RAMON was right. It was not necessary for her to wear such rag pieces (during sticky and sweet tour) in songs like vogue, human nature, etc. In a picture i could even see her panties slipped off her pussy. But understand that i admire each and every costume that she wore in confession tour. The purple leotard in hung up was really good and appropriate for that song indeed. She looked really sexy in that.
It's not her age but the situation and the performing song that determine an outfit. Why she had to wear unattractive underwears while simply standing and strumming a guitar? But the other songs had flamboyant cloths.
Wow we are divided aren't we. The Vogue costume was my favourite on the tour; I love her body, it's a well honed machine and I love to see her revelling in it, taking pride in it.
ReplyDeleteOff with the burka is what her Isaac performance heralded on the Confessions tour; Ramon, Mun - your comments are only a stones throw away from Islamist fundamentalism.
This is Madonna for Christ's sake, she produced a book about her pussy. Do you guys still not understand who Madonna is and what she stands for? Freedom of Choice and Freedom of Expression do not come with an Age Limit.
Ivor, do we have to drag religion into our discussion. It's not because i'm so religious. Truly speaking, i don't belong to any religion and i'm just a human being. But i don't like those talking about religion unnecessarily. Who wants to see her in burka? Noone man... Did you read my last comment completely in which i told that she looked great in her purple leotard while singing hung up? I don't know what a leotard means to you. Then about freedom of choice... Don't talk much about that. It doesn't work when you merely imitate her famous quotes. You are not madonna and you'll never be.you both used that same sentence in entirely different occasions. It's worthless if the arena is empty even if one dances stripped...
ReplyDeleteI didn't understand much of that, but please don't bother elaborating further. Reading your English gives me a headache.
ReplyDeleteNo arena will be empty with Madonna on the stage... NEVER :)
ReplyDeleteIvor Ciccone are you SERIOUS?? put away the burka?? please.
ReplyDeleteBack in the 90's, during SEX people criticized Madonna but they did so because she was pushing boundaries. Right now she is not pushing boundaries on the sex thing, what she does is just sad and desperate and she doesn't need to do it, if you can't see it fine but don't go around dismissing other people's opinions as irrational and as extreme islamic, I take offense in that, it's a racist and dumb and totally out of place comment.
And for you all who talk about how "great" Madonna's body is, since the last two years she has been covering up her arms and her hands, and yes she is covering them up with gloves and long sleeves because she knows how ghastly they have become, also, her face looks puffy all the time and her plastic surgery is obvious. I don't see a woman who is happy with her body, I see a woman with a ravaged body and a desperate attempt to stay young.
Ramon, it's journalists who are critical like you who have driven Madonna to wear gloves, in my opinion a form of bullying.
ReplyDeleteThe burka comment is not out of place at all, you are talking about a woman covering up, which is the whole purpose of a burka.
The boundaries Madonna is pushing now are the very ones your own mentality is struggling against; that a woman of 50 can still be sexy.
If you don't like the way she looks, fine - you're entitled to your opinion, stop looking at her.
And may I request that you stop slagging off the very artist this site is supposed to be celebrating, please?
ivor, I think the one with the problem is you. I never said women of 50 can't be sexy, there are many women over 50 who are sexy and beautiful, women like catherine denueve and sophia loren are in my opinion sexier than younger actresses.
ReplyDeleteIt's not a thing of taking your clothes to be sexy, it's a thing of being sexy because you are sexy, and Madonna doesn't need to take her clothes off, in fact most people are put off by it, a lot of fans and non fans, it's no wonder they are calling her "vadge" now, people are tired of her crotch, plain and simple.
And may I say that you are really disrespectful toward islamic cultures. So they use a burka, who are you to criticize that? it's their culture and one may not agree but one must be respectful and you are not.
And we all know Madonna doesn't read reviews nor does she read magazines or watches TV, and we all know about Madonna's will and independent thinking so to think that newspapers and journalists can drive her to cover her arms is totally undermining who she is, lol at that. If she is covering her arms and hands it's not because of journalism believe me, it's because she knows how ravaged her body is but can't stop her regime.
In fact, I read an article that included the opinion of several trainers and nutritionists and they unanimously agreed that Madonna's regime is unhealthy and detrimental.
Also, I don't see why I can't state my opinion even if it's not rose colored. I admire Madonna and I celebrate her and her achievements, and one of the ways I CELEBRATE Madonna is by stating my opinion in a respectful manner about whatever it is that I want to EXPRESS MYSELF about.
I'm not insulting anyone or attacking anyone in here, if you cannot deal with someone's criteria or opinion regarding any given topic then that is sadly your problem, not mine.
I'm sorry, you're "not insulting or attacking anyone here"? You insulted and attacked Madonna using words like "revolting", "ghastly", "ravaged". Describing someone like that is bound to provoke a reaction.
ReplyDeleteReread what I said about the burka, I stand by it. I have not offended muslims, merely stated that you seem to be like minded in terms of your desire for females to cover up.
To seriously believe the smokescreen that Madonna doesn't read or get to hear about what is written about her in the press in rather niave in my opinion. She made very public reactions to the critical backlash of Sex, American Life and her adoption. Hello? She knows exactly whats going on, even if she wants us to believe she's above it.
I will never tire of Madonna's crotch. Carry on attacking her for being a tramp, ultimately that label is something Madonna has risen above and accepted, fuck EMBRACED since I AM NOT ASHAMED.
:)
ivor - i love your argument. xo
ReplyDeletefans either have a very short term memory or possibly werent around or conscious or coherent when it was actually unfolding, but even during the sex book, everyone was over madonna being sexual and naked or showing too much and calling her too old. again, this is an ongoing argument with madonna. had she listened to what mortals think she should do, we wouldnt have her wonderful body of work. now everyone adores the sex book.
in 10-20 years time madonna will be looked at as a trailblazer for women over 50. maybe even sooner - when confessions came out - they were saying the same thing about the leotard and now everyones in love with the confessions era and the tour.
madonna's 'fans' are an odd group. theyre never happy until she has moved on. then what they were complaining about is now what theyre crying for. like babies.
as with most things madonna, her work ages well and people just transfer the old arguments to the new things that madonna does.
Well ivor- an old, torn copy of english dictionary... Stop barking. Thank god, atleast you've got great english! You know the best trick to escape from the questions and criticisms. Like one blames his pen for his bad hand writing. You're a big bag of shit. I've been trying my best to be decent throughout this time but you're really such a schmuck that makes others lose their temper easily.
ReplyDeleteThanks Pud, I love your site and your positive embracing of the Madonna manifesto. As per usual, I reckon your theory here is spot on. At least we can say that we are enjoying the ride, and we will be able to look back and say we supported her revolution. :) x
ReplyDeleteThe only one who is naive here is you Ivor, who can't even form a critical opinion of Madonna.
ReplyDeleteYes, Madonna fans are incredibly weird. They have no critical mind, everything that Madonna does is a masterpiece. I think that is so sad. I used to be like that back in like 2000, I still love Madonna but I have outgrown my "stan" stage, I can totally look at what Madonna does and point out what I like and what I don't like. It's virtually impossible to discuss Madonna with fellow fans because you can't disagree or dislike anything Madonna does because all you have is a sick cult for her, not admiration or fandom. It's sick.
And I do not believe that women should be covered up. I like skin.
The problem is when a woman shows skin out of desperation like Madonna is doing now, well that is uncomfortable for me because it's sad.
Never in a million years did I thought Madonna would age ungracefully, resorting to painfully OBVIOUS and unbecoming plastic surgery wich only makes her look older, I thought she was above that.
And may I say that you are all hypocrits. I remember back in the day when I used to post at the madonnatribe forums, some fans wanted Madonna to sex it up again, this around the wannabe school teacher phase she had, and most fans would jump like a vicious pack of wolves at the few of us who disliked Madonna pretenting to de an english lady in the manor, and when Madonna came back with the dominatrix theme and Erotica on the confessions tour this fans quickly changed their tune.
The point is that you don't have a mind of your own, you simply do and like what Madonna does and likes. I think it's sad to lose your individuality and your critical mind, assuming one has one in the first place.
Can't we all just get along?
ReplyDeleteRamon, I don't love her blindly, nor do I like everything she does, don't make assumptions about me. I wasn't a fan of the children book phase either and a number of her songs and videos are far from what I consider to be among her best work.
ReplyDeleteI am making a big deal about this because a) I happen to think she looks awesome right now. I love this hard edged look, long blond hair, rock hard bod, it's one of my favourites of her images - I like her tough.
And b) She is challenging societal norms in terms of whats acceptable for women past a certain age.
Having said all that, I love her more spiritual work too, Prayer and ROL are career highs in my affection and I would welcome a return to this territory.
How about we just agree to disagree on the subjects of her body, ageing and in your face sexuality. I love it, you don't.
ramon, we dont care what you were like and when - maybe your mother does, or maybe your twitter and facebook 'friends' do but we dont. we see what youre like now in 2010.
ReplyDeleteyou come to this blog daily and focus on things that you dont like - that arent even relevant to the post subject. maybe start an "I Think Madonna Isn't Aging The Way I Wanted and Expected Her To" blog. thats a good idea...hmmmm?
if your stance is habitual hostility - this probably isnt the place for you. theres plenty of places for you to vent your bizarre anger at madonna's aging and career choices. madonna forums are full of 'objective' people like yourself. xo
Hahaha. Hear, Hear Pud! Well Said. 'Nuff Said.
ReplyDeleteAs the great Candy Darling once said,
ReplyDelete"There's the door, what's your hurry?"
And as many a great Welshman has said,
"Now Fuck Off"
She is not pushing any boundaries right now for 50 year old women and older are not taking her fashion cues nor have they embraced her as her poster child, and young girls and women don't listen to Madonna anymore, she has lost a lot of ground with music lovers in general.
ReplyDeletePud, I don't have any anger towards anybody, oon the other hand I can spot your thinly veiled anger against me and everyone I guess who states their opinion.
I love this blog and seriously what is the point of creating a comments section if you are going to be bothered by people's opinions?? It's all you want to hear is praise for Madonna? This is just like any other Madonna forum or cult space, it's so sick.
Also, you say you don't care about my opinion, well what makes you think I care about yours?? I usually refrain from making comments or reading other people's opinions because I am bothered by their lack of perspective and often stupidity.
ReplyDeleteI also remember you from madonnatribe and you were always a bully. Still are.
you love the blog but think its sick? ramon, you need to take a look at that.
ReplyDeleteim not bothered by peoples opinions, at all. what does bother me is 'habitual trashing' - which is what you seem to do. its like compliment her yesteryear and trash her today.
if this was a steven klein hard candy outtake of her in the white fur and boxing gloves and everyone was saying - OMG, SHES SO HOT, id understand your position. but its not.
you seem to turn every post into how shes old and desperate and unoriginal and how youre now a master of the arts. really this is not the place for that.
so just please respect that. ive overlooked many of your comments but it seems you drive it in further the more i ignore.
just be cool. xo
This is like the second post I comment in, the first one was the American Life, TWO out of how many entries you have on this blog?? I seriously think you are overreacting.
ReplyDeleteAnd I had forgotten the Hard Candy outtakes, where she looks terrible in EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM.
As of late Madonna hasn't been able to look good without photoshop. I think it's sad. If you think that should be celebrated, well fine.
Ramon, you're implying you don't care about Pud's opinions, and you certainly don't have to; it's a free country. But this is Pud's blog. Naturally, it is based on and filled with HIS opinions. If that bothers you, maybe you should ask yourself why you keep coming back. Maybe you should create your own blog...?
ReplyDeleteIt's strange when someone keeps coming back just to argue about things... Life is too short for that! Thanks once again for offering us so much!
ReplyDeleteMadonna looks great in most pap shots, though the bad ones naturally get more coverage in the tabloids. She looks amazing live on stage and super hot at awards ceremonies and premieres - there's no photoshop in those pics. And she certainly isnt the only artist to get photoshopped in publicity shots, these days everyone's at it.
ReplyDeleteGet a life.
Madonna has emboldened millions of girls and women to embrace their sexualities all over the world and she still does - in the past two years she produced the most successful tour by a solo artist in history, in the vast crowds, all over the world, were girls and women who continue to be inspired by her and her choices.
ReplyDeletebetty, ally, ivor and others - its my pleasure doing this daily and i appreciate your participation here. this is a place for appreciation. madonna forums are riddled with disgruntled fans - one of the reasons i broke away from them. i cant live in a river of complaints. madonna - "unhappy people are nasty people."
ReplyDeleteSo if I disagree with the status quo I am unhappy?? god you are such morons.
ReplyDeleteAnd I come to this blog to steal the pictures and save them on my pc, not to read Pud's bullying, dellusional and immature opinions. Or his followers for that matter.
ramon, no need to play the martyr.
ReplyDeletetheres plenty of places to get Madonna pics - but theres no Pud brain going along with it. so, im glad you come to rip my ideas, the way i put things together and the photos for your hard drive. thats what its for. xo
hey, buy wait, isnt that the internet version of what you say madonna does? haha!!!
just poking at you. be cool, glad youre here and have a great weekend. xo